PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
10-15-2011, 11:20 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 09:22 AM by Amerok.) Post: #1
Amerok
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PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
PEN Model of Attraction
Hey guys,
Finally, here it comes. I discovered this thing 4 months ago and I’m still exploring the stuff, it goes a long way !
It is based on PEN (Psychotic Extrovert Neurotic) personality model proposed by psychologist Hans Eysenck and adapted by Adam Lyons into an attraction model, powerful shit ahead !
What is it useful for ? To calibrate your game to the girl in front of you.
There are 3 female archetypes :
Bad girl
Character : looking for strong sensations, she loves emotional rollercoasters.
Flaws : she can be unstable and/or masochists, can have “daddy issues”.
Physical : she has often tattoos or piercings. She will be dressed with crazy colors and/or motifs, very short skirt. The girl that you would call a “slut” in clubs.
Examples of archetypes : pornstar, beautician, hair dresser, etc.
Where can you find them : clubs
Party girl
Character : she wants to be seen and admired, love to be surrounded by people and in social situations.
Flaws : her diva/princess side
Physical : Anything that shines, bright colors, she wants to be noticed.
Examples of archetypes : the “party girl”, the “funny girl”, the miss who knows everybody, etc.
Where can you find them : in a group, dancing in clubs and bars with the hands up, shopping on Newburry street saturday or sunday afternoon.
Romantic
Character : She has her own world, she’s a dreamer, her place will be very personal, she’s very good at making a “cocoon” for her.
Flaws : she can be asocial, shy and castrating bitch.
Physical : Purple is their color, grey, brown, she’s trying not to be seen too much.
Examples of archetypes : the librarian, the teacher, the romantic, the artist, etc.
Where can you find them : libraries, coffee shops, AT HOME, at her friends place, etc. She will go out but she hates it.
To these 3 feminine archetypes correspond 4 masculine archetypes which are going to attract them :
Leader
Character : He likes to be in charge and gather people, he’s extroverted
Flaws : he can be bossy
Physical : Uniform, suit, tie, shirt
Examples of archetypes : the policeman, the boss, the military, the club owner, etc.
Bad Boy
Character : He likes strong sensations and he’s unpredictable
Flaws : he can be dangerous for other or himself and/or sadistic
Physical : He wears often black color
Examples of archetypes : the rapper, the biker, the weed smoker, the adventurer, the guys who drives fast cars, etc.
Bad Boy
Character : He likes strong sensations and he’s unpredictable
Flaws : he can be dangerous for other or himself and/or sadistic
Physical : He wears often black color
Examples of archetypes : the rapper, the biker, the weed smoker, the adventurer, the guys who drives fast cars, etc.
Nice Guy
Character : He’s nice and funny, connected to his emotions
Flaws : he can be needy
Physical : he’s average, looking like anybody else, the “average Joe”
Examples of archetypes : the romantic guy, the best friend, the drinking buddy, the student, the scientist, etc.
Provider
Character : He gives value by paying material stuff to others.
Flaws : That’s all he thinks he can offer therefore that’s all he offers
Physical : he has pricey clothes
Examples of archetypes : mommy’s boy, etc.
Now that we know the players, let’s have a look at ATTRACTION
Bad girl <=> Bad Boy : He’s going to give her the strong sensations she’s looking for
Romantic <=> Nice guy : he’s going to enter her bubble and reassure her.
Party girl <=> Leader : he takes her out, make her dance and meet people.
The provider is a SECOND CHOICE : if the bad girl cannot have her bad boy, she’ll take a provider rather than a nice guy. If she cannot have the sensation/emotion she’s looking for, she’ll go for : “At least he has a nice car”.
We’re all a bit bad box, leader and nice guy. We’re just these archetypes in different situations at different moment in the week or in our life. The typical transition being : teenager : bad boy => young adult : nice guy => thirty-fortyish : leader.
You can also have a combination of several archetypes in your personality : be very much of a leader with a nice guy side to it.
What can you do with these information ?
1. Know what you are ! If you are not in any of these categories : bad news, you won’t attract many women. For example : the nerd, the grumpy, etc. don’t get laid !
2. Know what kind of woman you want to attract
3. Know how and when you express your sides : Are you a leader at your job ? When going out ? Are you a bad boy when you don’t pay your tax or when you’re driving ? Are you a nice guy listening to your sister or when you make jokes with your colleagues ?
4. Now you know what side of your personality you have to develop in the case you’re attracting the “wrong” kind of girl. For instance, I want bad girls, so I have to be more of a bad boy.
5. When you’re out meeting women and let’s say you have a neurotic in front of you, don’t tell her you jumped out of a plane yesterday, it will freak her out. If you meet a bad girl don’t talk to her about your last video game. You got it : it is a matter of CALIBRATION.
This calibration depends on the location as well. Yesterday I had my black leather jacket (Bad Boy vibe) at the Lir and it doesn’t fit the place, I might meet some bad girls : I just saw two of them in the whole night. So Bad girls don’t go to the Lir. The Lir is 70% romantic girls, 20% party girls, 10% bad girl.
Finally, the tests she’s going to through at you will be calibrated around what she’s looking for : the neurotic will try to see if you’re caring and the bad girl will try to see if you have balls (field-tested).
If you find a girl who’s shit-testing you hard, you can almost right away tell she’s not a neurotic. Apart if she’s telling you : me and my friends would like to stay alone. This means that you entering her bubble is too much.
The power of this model is that it is good for a natural game, you just have to express the right side of you at the right moment.
Enjoy ! Any feed-back welcome.
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-15-2011, 12:11 PM Post: #2
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Honestly, this sounds like marketing to me. My crazy psycho ex possessed just about all of those qualities. I don’t think it’s as easy as this. There are plenty of girls I know that don’t fit into either of those. Plus, I think at least 2 out of the 3 listed female “types” are derogatory against women.
November 20th Symposium – equilibrium – Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
10-15-2011, 12:27 PM Post: #3
Entropy4
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Sounds like a piss-poor rip off of DiCarlo’s Pandora’s Box system. Pandora is really interesting and actually based on psychological research as well, but this kind of stuff is not very applicable in field at all.
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10-15-2011, 12:42 PM Post: #4
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I agree with the comments above. Sounds like more pointless guy crack. Modeling types of women and then trying to somehow change your game based on the type of women is both more work than you need to do and largely the wrong type of work. Approach each women as if she is completely unique and make the interaction about learning about her. It’s much better than going in with predetermined ideas about people.
It’s more useful to try and determine what type of girl turns you on and what type of girl you are compatible with. It’s the best way to have healthy interactions with women. Approaching should be an exercise in determining if you and the girl you are talking with would make a good match.
These types of models are not bad for guys to learn about if they are newbies and even to go out and do some learning, but with good calibration they aren’t needed at all.
BTW – I am both very nerdy and very grumpy. Nerds and geeks tend to hang out and meet each other. I love nerdy girls!
10-15-2011, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 01:31 PM by Amerok.) Post: #5
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Too bad, there is no value for you guys in there . I hope some guys out there will be able to find some in it !
Peace, Love and Harmony !
PS : I think my english messed up, by “nerd” I meant “the asocial guy with dirty clothes and hair” ! By “grumpy”, I meant “negative, always arguing guy”.
PSS : I do use this everyday and I used it to pick-up the last chick I made love with.
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-15-2011, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 02:10 PM by Seven.) Post: #6
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 11:20 AM)Amerok Wrote:
Psychotic
Examples of archetypes : pornstar, beautician, hair dresser, etc.
I laughed out loud.
10-15-2011, 02:51 PM Post: #7
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 01:19 PM)Amerok Wrote:
By “grumpy”, I meant “negative, always arguing guy”.
I’m pretty negative – so is Gordon Ramsey, Donald Trump and Steve Jobs.
(10-15-2011 01:19 PM)Amerok Wrote:
PSS : I do use this everyday and I used it to pick-up the last chick I made love with.
Most likely this helped you by getting you out to meet more women. It gave you confidence that you could go out and meet this type of women. The other side is, could someone ignorant of this model also pick up women – the answer is yes. Men have been having sex with women for thousands of years. Can a guy who doesn’t go out and who doesn’t meet women or had the confidence to believe he could get with her pick her up – no.
It would seem to me like this acts much like a placebo. Much of PUA stuff does. It’s not useless, but when you do this for a long time, you start to see this pattern emerge.
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Seven (10-15-2011)
10-15-2011, 04:31 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 04:32 PM by Amerok.) Post: #8
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Grim you’ve got it all wrong. But I have better stuff to do than just try to convince you guys. I shared something with you and you think it’s shit or give you confidence to meet women (by the way, did you read that is about calibration ?) that’s fine.
Peace !
I wish you the best with women !
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-15-2011, 04:50 PM Post: #9
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 04:31 PM)Amerok Wrote:
Grim you’ve got it all wrong. But I have better stuff to do than just try to convince you guys. I shared something with you and you think it’s shit or give you confidence to meet women (by the way, did you read that is about calibration ?) that’s fine.
Peace !
I wish you the best with women !
Come back in a few years and tell me if you still think this is a magic bullet. Three of the most experienced guys on this Lair don’t see this system as holding much merit.
Calibration is not something you can plan for. You can’t hold a model of it in your head. It’s done in the moment. If this system helps you, then go for it, I’m not saying it’s bad for you.
10-15-2011, 04:56 PM Post: #10
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 04:31 PM)Amerok Wrote:
Grim you’ve got it all wrong. But I have better stuff to do than just try to convince you guys. I shared something with you and you think it’s shit or give you confidence to meet women (by the way, did you read that is about calibration ?) that’s fine.
I agree with serendipitious, some of it is just degrading. You might get laid this way (it seems you have) but you’ll never make a real connection. This formula will make you more superficial and one dimensional than you really are, not to mention the girl.
Calibration is ideally about improvisation, not formula, and expressing different, but real, sides of yourself.
10-15-2011, 05:17 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 05:22 PM by Entropy4.) Post: #11
Entropy4
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Pick up is an organic and emotional process that is unique from interaction to interaction. There are a million ways to slice it up and label the process. Each way you choose slice it up and analyze it is going to be imperfect and therefore have its own strengths and weaknesses.
Yes, this model helps you spot personality traits and teaches you to calibrate to them. But it also limits and stereotypes behavior unfairly and in the long-run will hurt connection and relationships.
I see a model like this very much the same way as I see routines. If they help you, that’s great, use them. But the idea is to get to the point where you don’t need it anymore. Because many of these tools that help you early on, are the same tools that hold you back later.
But you are right, we should thank you for sharing something that’s been helping you. Although next time I’d be a little more careful about plastering words like “powerful” all over it. I think that’s probably what elicited such negative responses from the senior guys. Because in the end, Grim is right, it’s a placebo. And right now it’s working for you. Learn what you can from the experiences and then move on without it. Every interaction is unique. Every woman has an endless spectrum of emotional needs and desires, and the only way you can begin to react to them appropriately is by observing and feeling them yourself. Not by reading about them.
Best of luck.
“Your favorite guru’s favorite guru.” – Doc
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Seven (10-15-2011)
10-15-2011, 06:07 PM Post: #12
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I wonder which of those categories Adams wife falls in…
November 20th Symposium – equilibrium – Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
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Dicky Wifebeater (10-15-2011)
10-15-2011, 06:50 PM Post: #13
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
This shit is only powerful stuff for you because of your nearly illogical belief in it.
It’s not a bad thing if you’re just looking to get laid.
It is a bad thing if you’re planning on having any sort of real relationship with a woman in the future.
Hi, my name is Drifter and if the above post offended you in any way, shape or form, please send me a PM and simply request a post removal and I’ll be more than happy to oblige, you tight little vagina, you. ^_~
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10-15-2011, 08:23 PM Post: #14
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Guys,
I really think there is a huge misunderstanding, I do not see where it is, so I cannot recover. But apparently the way you view it and the way I am doing it and using it like 180° apart.
It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. It’s like we’re talking about two different things. I am not using it the way you guys seem to think. Serendipitous has seen me in-field and he knows I’m a genuine person who loves women.
So unfortunately, I think this thread was a hit and miss ! Too bad !
Ok, I’ll try anyway one last time. How do I use it ?
I use it for cold reading. It’s not a magic trick or nothing, it’s just that our personalities are somehow limited (I know I’ll get some reaction on this, remember we’re on a forum I cannot explain in depth my thinking). When I say it gets me laid, it doesn’t. It just helps me to know who I’m dealing with. That’s it !
But your over-reactions of all of you (I do not get one feed-back on my progress, which I need and get 10 answers in this thread saying I’m saying shit ???) show me I touched a sensitive spot ? Crazy, I don’t understand ??? Is it because i said “Adam Lyons” ??? Should have I said “Judy Garland” ? Is this a war or something ?
So I know it is disturbing for some people, but yesterday I cold read a woman who obviously an extrovert in front of joe and he can witness that she was quite impressed that I could know so much about her.
Then another girl I guess she’s in art, etc. I do this every day. Whatever, I’ll guess you just don’t care. I don’t mind !
I know that you are judging me on that and I have to say that I’m quite disappointed about this on a self-improvement forum. I thought it was a community and that we were supposed to help and support each other, and not AMOG one another, I do not get nothing out of all your comments, except that you’re pissed off.
You guys are just using the same intuition-based reading on girls and people but maybe it’s not rationalized, it does not come from Adam Lyons or you don’t want to admit it. Whatever, this is your thing, not mine.
By the way, if it goes into the “more experienced guys don’t agree on this, so it is bullshit”, then once again I would say I am quite disappointed since I don’t like cock size contests, I have to say.
Whatever, I think I’m out of this thread : too much NEGATIVITY, I’ll let you guys continue to bury it ! You’re good at it ! Would it be that you all are bad boys ?
Peace anyway !
Amerok
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-15-2011, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 09:14 PM by Seven.) Post: #15
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
dude, this is not a personal attack on you.
everyone here is supportive and wants you and everyone else here to improve with women and generally at life.
one of the main things we learn here is how to communicate better. if a bunch of senior guys reacted the way they did you have to look at why that is, and how you can communicate better.
take some time and look back at old posts. this is far from the first time someone has posted on cold reading or calibration short cuts. there have been many in depth discussion on the topic, look at those before posting.
you came in with an attitude like your dropping a bomb of awesome “powerful” wisdom on everyone, and it came off either arrogant or misinformed.
yes you say in this last post that it is only a minor extra helper for you to cold read, but that’s not what you said in the original post. if you really like this stuff i would check out the pandoras box thing that entropy mentioned.
——————————————————————————–
and dont feel discouraged, im sure its shitty and depressing to feel like your being singled out and bashed by all the big guns, but thats not whats happening here, the bashing is of the model, not of you. no one will remember this at all if you give them something else to remember you by.
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. – Bruce Lee
10-15-2011, 09:09 PM Post: #16
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
No one is shitting on you Amerok. We’re just giving you our opinions of the model you posted about.
November 20th Symposium – equilibrium – Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
10-15-2011, 09:40 PM Post: #17
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Yeah man, this is not a personal attack. Each post I made I took the time to say that if it works for you keep doing it. Or that it’ll be helpful for newbies. But it is not the end all of it all.
You presented this information and I believe you expected us to all agree that it is as powerful as you think it is. Well we all have different opinions. Many of the experienced guys, myself included, tried models like this and it may have helped, it may not have. But when we disagree, please separate our opinions from who we are. My guess us you are disappointed we don’t share your enthusiasm for it. No reason to hate us.
Learn to be a little less reactive. No one is judging you.
10-15-2011, 10:16 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 10:18 PM by Drifter Miles.) Post: #18
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I am going to attack you, purely for fun now. ^_^
(10-15-2011 08:23 PM)Amerok Wrote:
I really think there is a huge misunderstanding, I do not see where it is, so I cannot recover.
So you spend the next few paragraphs trying to recover?
Quote:
It’s sad, but that’s the way it is. It’s like we’re talking about two different things. I am not using it the way you guys seem to think.
It doesn’t really matter what we think.
If it works for you, it works for you.
If it works for you, there shouldn’t be a need for you to be so emotionally charged in defending it.
I do a lot of shit that classical pickup would totally frown upon, but you know what? It doesn’t matter, because I make it work through my own human ingenuity.
Quote:
So unfortunately, I think this thread was a hit and miss ! Too bad !
Once again, if it’s too bad, why are you trying to do this Mystery Method backturn shit?
Why are you explaining below if it’s such a lost cause to bring this to the table?
Quote:
Ok, I’ll try anyway one last time. How do I use it ?
I use it for cold reading. It’s not a magic trick or nothing, it’s just that our personalities are somehow limited (I know I’ll get some reaction on this, remember we’re on a forum I cannot explain in depth my thinking). When I say it gets me laid, it doesn’t. It just helps me to know who I’m dealing with. That’s it !
Then why did you claim that this is POWERFUL stuff?
Quote:
But your over-reactions of all of you (I do not get one feed-back on my progress, which I need and get 10 answers in this thread saying I’m saying shit ???) show me I touched a sensitive spot ?
No, but your post clearly shows that we touched a really sensitive spot.
Your clitoris.
Seriously, dude. You need to make up your mind. Are you a resolute man who sticks to his beliefs like you try to present yourself to be? Or are you someone who needs everyone’s support in order to feel fulfilled?
Quote:
So I know it is disturbing for some people, but yesterday I cold read a woman who obviously an extrovert in front of joe and he can witness that she was quite impressed that I could know so much about her.
Then another girl I guess she’s in art, etc. I do this every day. Whatever, I’ll guess you just don’t care. I don’t mind !
That’s fantastic that you can cold read. It should be a part of everyone’s skillset to be playful with women and interact with them in a frank and honest manner. However, that’s not what your POWERFUL STUFF was about.
Quote:
I know that you are judging me on that and I have to say that I’m quite disappointed about this on a self-improvement forum.
Uhh, pretty sure everyone shit all over this PEN Attraction Model. Look, everyone has a different style. I shit all over Mystery Method just a few days ago. It’s okay to have an opinion about a pickup style. It’s okay to have a perspective about it. It’s okay to share it. However, it’s not okay to get all butthurt over something that you didn’t even have a hand in developing.
Quote:
I thought it was a community and that we were supposed to help and support each other, and not AMOG one another, I do not get nothing out of all your comments, except that you’re pissed off.
If you’d get off your emotions for a second, you’d realize that you’re the one who’s offended, here. Nobody took a shit on you. Now you’re accusing EVERYONE of being pissed off. Sounds like you’re projecting, man.
Quote:
By the way, if it goes into the “more experienced guys don’t agree on this, so it is bullshit”, then once again I would say I am quite disappointed since I don’t like cock size contests, I have to say.
Is it because you’d quite obviously lose, just like you’ve been doing throughout this thread? lol, j/k obviously, but on a serious note, anyone who just blindly follows another person’s method or tactic just because they’re experienced or even famous like Adam Lyons (oh man, my throat is itchy, lemme clear this shit up real quick.. ahem.. AHEMEROK! okay, all better.) is just a lemming.
Quote:
Whatever, I think I’m out of this thread : too much NEGATIVITY, I’ll let you guys continue to bury it ! You’re good at it ! Would it be that you all are bad boys ?
Peace anyway !
Amerok
You think you’re so cute, hiding all those butthurt emotions behind winking smileys.
Nobody is asking you to change your methods. Nobody is poking their dried talcum powdered dick into your soft and delicate sphincter. I don’t know if it’s because english is your second language (it’s my second too, btw, lmaobbqwtf) or if you just have a weird attachment to this model, but you’re seriously misunderstanding what’s going on in this thread.
Go back and read what people are saying AFTER you detach yourself from this strategy.
Also, just because this is a self improvement forum, it doesn’t mean we all have to constantly suck each other’s dicks. People need their beliefs challenged in order to change it or solidify it.
Hi, my name is Drifter and if the above post offended you in any way, shape or form, please send me a PM and simply request a post removal and I’ll be more than happy to oblige, you tight little vagina, you. ^_~
PM me about… The Rape Method Program – The fastest, cheapest, most convenient way to get laid available to you today for a specially discounted price of only $5999!
10-15-2011, 11:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2011 11:15 PM by Action.) Post: #19
Action
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 10:16 PM)Drifter Miles Wrote:
(oh man, my throat is itchy, lemme clear this shit up real quick.. ahem.. AHEMEROK! okay, all better.)
I lol’d
personally having gone through pandora’s box and such I find this kind of stuff to be way to hard to remember to apply in field. It might have some value after the fact if your thinking about starting a ltr I imagine possibly. But on pure cold approach I notice it just adds a whole other wall of thoughts.
I go from “oh shit hot girl” -> open
to “oh shit hot girl” -> “…wait, does she dream about the future?..” -> “oh fuck, shes wearing purple…wait what does that mean again??” -> ahh forget it/open (but way shittier cause i’ve been in my head a bit)
No one is knocking you, your a chill guy. BUT to be fair, you did sort of have a similar reaction when I was in field with you and these girls were like “really?! no way! your not from switzerland” kinda shit testy, kinda playful and you were sorta like “WHAT! FUCK YOU BITCHES LETS GET OUT OF HERE” haha.
The following 1 user Likes Action’s post:1 user Likes Action’s post
Seven (10-16-2011)
10-15-2011, 11:26 PM Post: #20
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
lol, I went back and read some of the posts I didn’t read and I saw this.
Quote:
But I have better stuff to do than just try to convince you guys.
Oh, Amerok, you clusterfuck of conundrums, you. <3
Hi, my name is Drifter and if the above post offended you in any way, shape or form, please send me a PM and simply request a post removal and I'll be more than happy to oblige, you tight little vagina, you. ^_~
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10-16-2011, 07:37 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 08:01 AM by Siege.) Post: #21
Siege
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Hey Amerok, great night out.
& I do see how a good portion (but not all) of your model even related to the tables of girls on either side of where we sat.
But yes, as I somewhat explained, the vocabulary that has come from your translation of Swiss-French to English might get negative conotations as first impression.
(10-15-2011 12:11 PM)Serendipitous Wrote:
I think at least 2 out of the 3 listed female "types" are derogatory against women.
You Amerock, Dean (lived in Switzerland, speaks Swiss-French) and myself should all pow-wow together soon and we'll help you to reword your post to have a better understandable value for more readers on these boards.
Until then, Let d"Adventure Continue, Ttyl.
~CJ
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10-16-2011, 09:07 AM Post: #22
Dean
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Lol, I get the "you can't be from switzerland" all the time, at least you've got an accent. It's a small country, so even in a place as diverse as Boston, they're not many swiss here. Plus while switzerland may be known for it's cheese, chocolate, and banking, there are no well known stereotypes about the swiss here, so people don't know what to expect. Either way, I've never found the initial skepticism to be a barrier.
About these models, if we're looking at psych profiles, why not go for the real stuff like the myers-briggs scale? But in my experience, the best thing to go off in an interaction are your own instincts and impressions. The human mind is the most powerful modeling software at your disposal. By putting girls into categories, you risk ignoring or dismissing the most interesting part of a woman, the side of her that doesn't readily fit into a box
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10-16-2011, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 10:20 AM by Amerok.) Post: #23
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I'm back due to the nice feedback from CJ : Thanks for your feedback, man ! I corrected with "bad girl", "romantic" and "party girl", maybe a cultural/language thing.
Dean : I think you're misunderstanding me, I try to get to know everyone on a deep level I love to connect. I do not say : "She's a bad girl so she's only so and so". In my mind it goes like "she is mostly bad girl, so she LIKES the EMOTION of excitement and likes very dominant men", it is just one more information about her like the place where she grew up, her passions, the type of sport she does and so and so.
If you see a girl who runs, swims and do 3-4 more sports, you will make a mental category for her that she likes sports and from there, using the association principle (social psychological shit) you will attribute her certain attributes, some of which will be true, some of which will be wrong (the "halo effect" is the association principle at work). For example, if you say to her : "You like sports, so you like to take care of your health". This will be true for a certain percentage of them, if I had to guess, I'd say the majority. But for some of them, it will be : the pleasure of endorphins in their brains, being in the nature, feeling the power of your muscles, losing weight, teamplay, etc.
And this is where I'm happy to be wrong. I try to kill my prejudices (and this is why I love meeting people and travelling), so when I do a cold read and guess someone, it is very good to be wrong, then I get to feed my intuition with new information and get to know the girl better. It's just like when you see a girl and in your mind something negative comes (she looks like a slut), I go to her to get to know her. Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to be a psychic or something, it's just a fun game to me to try to guess as many things from a person as I can without the person telling me. Some social artists are into magic tricks, some are into storytelling, I am into understanding from where people come from and what they are looking for in life.
Regarding the categories, this is just how your brain work, otherwise you could not process all the info out there. You're keeping some information and leaving most of it. Have a look at "categorization social psychology" in a book or on google (haven't found any good resources online, I took classes on this), so whatever it is : people or objects, you're filtering out some information. This is where stereotypes come from.
It is useful to know stereotypes because they make you gain time in some situations. However, I know that they are ONLY stereotypes, I've been in Brazil and I've been friends with a pretty nerdy guy who could not dance and seduce girls. He was feeling like shit, because the majority of brazilian guys in the village where I was (hence the stereotype) were good at both. And it is the same in every culture or group.
Here is some more info on the PEN model anyway :
http://www.personalityresearch.org/pen.html
Quote:
Causal Aspects
Extraversion. The PEN model is biologically based. Extraversion is based on cortical arousal. Arousal can be measured by skin conductance, brain waves, or sweating. While theoretically introverts are chronically overaroused and jittery, theoretically extraverts are chronically underaroused and bored. The theory presupposes that there is an optimal level of arousal, and that performance deteriorates as one becomes more or less aroused than this optimal level. The finding that arousal is related to performance as an inverted U-shaped curve is called the Yerkes-Dodson Law.
Extraversion is related to social interest and positive affect. Some investigators have proposed that social interest causes positive affect, since the best of times are usually those spent with other people. However, Diener and Larsen (1993) have found that this hypothesis is incorrect. Another alternative is that positive affect causes social interest, since being very enthusiastic and fun loving may make people want to go out and be with other people. This hypothesis has not yet been studied. Yet another possibility is that a third factor causes both positive affect and social interest. Dopamine responsivity, which makes people highly sensitive to reward, may be the factor responsible for both positive affect and social interest.
Neuroticism. Neuroticism is based on activation thresholds in the sympathetic nervous system or visceral brain. This is the part of the brain that is responsible for the fight-or-flight response in the face of danger. Activation can be measured by heart rate, blood pressure, cold hands, sweating, and muscular tension (especially in the forehead). Neurotic people, who have a low activation threshold, experience negative affect (fight-or-flight) in the face of very minor stressors--i.e., they are easily upset. Emotionally stable people, who have a high activation threshold, experience negative affect only in the face of very major stressors--i.e., they are calm under pressure.
It is interesting to note that measures of activation are not highly correlated. That is, people differ in which responses are influenced by stress--some sweat, others get headaches. This is called individual response specificity. It is also interesting to note that stressors differ in the responses they elicit. This is called stimulus response specificity.
Psychoticism. Psychoticism is associated not only with the liability to have a psychotic episode (or break with reality), but also with aggression. While less research has been done on Psychoticism than on Extraversion and Neuroticism, the research that has been done has indicated that Psychoticism too has a biological basis: increased testosterone levels.
In order to draw causal conclusions, researchers on the PEN model have not been content to use only correlational research methods such as factor analysis, but have gone further and used experimental research methods. These methods have been used not only on humans, but also on non-human animals such as rats. (Isn't it interesting that Eysenck believes even rats have personality--with the same three dimensions as humans?!)
It's just a tool, don't take it personally.
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We bring Love.
Only Love.
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10-16-2011, 09:47 AM Post: #24
Entropy4
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Well, that's better. But my point from my most recent reply still stands.
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10-16-2011, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 10:10 AM by Amerok.) Post: #25
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Maybe I forgot to explain something from wikipedia :
Quote:
In psychology, an archetype is a model of a person, personality, or behavior.
A model is not real life, I know it guys, don't worry.
BTW : my offer for (constructive and/or positive) feedback on my progress still stands. Anytime !
Love you ! Smack !
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
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10-16-2011, 10:28 AM Post: #26
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-16-2011 10:08 AM)Amerok Wrote:
BTW : my offer for (constructive and/or positive) feedback on my progress still stands.
http://bostonmenssymposium.com/forum/sho...p?tid=7066
#2.
November 20th Symposium - equilibrium - Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
10-16-2011, 10:42 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 10:42 AM by Entropy4.) Post: #27
Entropy4
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-16-2011 10:08 AM)Amerok Wrote:
Maybe I forgot to explain something from wikipedia :
Quote:
In psychology, an archetype is a model of a person, personality, or behavior.
A model is not real life, I know it guys, don't worry.
BTW : my offer for (constructive and/or positive) feedback on my progress still stands. Anytime !
Love you ! Smack !
I think you're still missing my point. But my constructive feedback is already there, if you want to read it.
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10-16-2011, 10:54 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 10:56 AM by Amerok.) Post: #28
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Hey Seven,
Seven, I read your answer right now but not all the other from others , I do not like emotional poison I have to say. Sorry man, but I don't think people were supportive at all. I did not even read the answer where the guy takes one hour of his time just to trash me.
I agree about communicating better, this is why I wrote more on it. The thing is people start over-reacting : "I'm like : whoa ! what's happening ?". That's cool that other people had a look at cold-reading and stuff before me, I did not want to sound arrogant or stuff. It IS powerful for me in my life and it does not work 100% of the time, it's just a tool.
I might be misinformed, since you know I'm trying to improve and learn JUST LIKE EVERYONE. This is why I was very sad of the way people reacted. If I am just a newbie who needs guidance and enlightenment, as I said : you are most welcome.
The thing I did not like is people criticizing something they have not even TRIED, which means I cannot trust what they're saying. They did not even experimented it.
It's like someone saying : "Guys I found this new ice cream mint with chocolate chips, it's awesome !". Does it sound like arrogant or misinformed ? Then some guys : "It is shit, I already tasted mint and it sucks", another "I tasted chocolate and it's the real deal". Well, I'm talking about something else. If I share it with you, maybe there's some reasons, don't you think ? Try it and then you can tell me I don't like it. Not this is shit (non-violent communication). Then I will not feel attacked.
Anyway you are right, I can always improve my communication, I know I may sound arrogant sometime. I have to work on that.
BTW : I already use the Pandora's box model. I use these two models to complement each other for calibration. I hope it does not sound arrogant or misinformed ?
If I should be communicating better, I'm not the only one. You say I'm taking this personally, but this is how I felt about you guys.
(10-15-2011 08:49 PM)Seven Wrote:
dude, this is not a personal attack on you.
everyone here is supportive and wants you and everyone else here to improve with women and generally at life.
one of the main things we learn here is how to communicate better. if a bunch of senior guys reacted the way they did you have to look at why that is, and how you can communicate better.
take some time and look back at old posts. this is far from the first time someone has posted on cold reading or calibration short cuts. there have been many in depth discussion on the topic, look at those before posting.
you came in with an attitude like your dropping a bomb of awesome "powerful" wisdom on everyone, and it came off either arrogant or misinformed.
yes you say in this last post that it is only a minor extra helper for you to cold read, but that's not what you said in the original post. if you really like this stuff i would check out the pandoras box thing that entropy mentioned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and dont feel discouraged, im sure its shitty and depressing to feel like your being singled out and bashed by all the big guns, but thats not whats happening here, the bashing is of the model, not of you. no one will remember this at all if you give them something else to remember you by.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serendip and Entropy : I'll have a look at what you wrote. I got angry on this thing.
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-16-2011, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 11:36 AM by Grim.) Post: #29
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-16-2011 10:54 AM)Amerok Wrote:
Then some guys : "It is shit
Please drop this. No one said it was "shit." You keep putting words in peoples mouths. It is not going to help you or make people want to help you. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
10-16-2011, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 12:28 AM by Seven.) Post: #30
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Listen man, I'm quickly losing interest in this bizarre debate.
What I'll say to you is the same thing I said to another guy in a thread about his troubles with some religious girl. MOVE ON, its not fucking worth it, your getting stuck in a rut of your own making. Nobody will remember this (including you) if you just roll with the punches and keep going.
The fact that people are supportive here doesn't mean they're gonna like everything you say, it means there is an overall theme of constructive criticism toward the goal of self improvement for everyone involved. If you feel guys were too harsh, then work on communication with siege and whomever else you like so you can learn how to elicit the type of responses your looking for.
The one thing ill respond to in your last post is you claim people are criticizing a model they've never tried, but if you read carefully lots of guys told you they've tried shit that's very similar, and the thing you posted is really just not that original. sorry. fact. also models of any kind should be used mostly as training wheels and this is pretty much an agreed upon principle not only here but universally. also fact.
Tom Brady's offense is so great not because its based on a model (a ridiculously complex one at that), but because he is so practiced and skilled that he probably never thinks about that model anymore, he just goes with his instincts. His greatest asset is situational awareness. The model was simply Charlie Weis' (his first nfl coach) way of bringing him along when he was still a total nube. Now he changes plays on the fly just by looking at a guy a certain way.
don't get defensive because something you say is criticized here. do you react the same way when a girl criticizes you? You just end up looking like a douche. I sincerely hope you take this as a learning experience and like i said MOVE ON.
If you wanna talk more PM me.
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. - Bruce Lee
10-16-2011, 02:28 PM Post: #31
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Calm down guys. Everyone means well.
Guys, Amerok isn't from Boston or even the U.S. He isn't familiar with how our community disagrees with a lot of what some people consider "the word".
Amerok, no one is attacking you personally, these guys are just offering their opinions because you asked for feedback. If it works for you, keep using it.
November 20th Symposium - equilibrium - Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
10-16-2011, 08:31 PM Post: #32
Seeker
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I wanted to say a quick thanks to Amerok for sharing. He found something that worked for him in field and took the time to share it and try to add value to the group. I think that is commendable.
It was also valuable to see other people's thoughts on the model. I find that even if I don't go all in on a particular model, there can be nuggets of truth that remind me of things I should be doing.
Here I was reminded that I should pay attention to the girls to whom I'm speaking (novel idea, right ?). Even if not classifying anyone a certain way, Amerok's model reminded me sometimes I'm thinking about what I'm saying so much that I'm not as situationally aware of who's in front of me as I should be.
I also smiled at the idea of the "bad boy" and thought I need to be more like that . Again, apart from any model this was valuable about reminding me I need to get more comfortable expressing my sexuality and leading. So that was an interpretation that added value for me, irrespective of the overall model at hand.
So again, Amerok, thanks for sharing.
10-16-2011, 08:40 PM Post: #33
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I hope its implied that we appreciate people sharing here, and if its not obvious, then ill be explicit. sharing is what this is all about. without sharing this is nothing. thank you to Amerok and everybody for sharing.
The point here is you cant do that effectively if your overly sensitive to peoples reactions. nobody is gonna constantly suck your dick just for sharing, the growth comes from hearing people talk straight, without holding back. You gotta learn to take criticism for what it is.
In my short time ( and i dont even claim to be a senior guy really, barely intermediate at best) i have noticed that perhaps one of the biggest epiphanies any guy can have is that moment when they realize they don't have to be defensive about shit. Go with the flow. take perceived negatives and turn them in your favor. Be like water.
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. - Bruce Lee
10-16-2011, 09:06 PM Post: #34
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-16-2011 10:54 AM)Amerok Wrote:
Serendip and Entropy : I'll have a look at what you wrote. I got angry on this thing.
lol, you've been angry since like post number 2, homie.
Hi, my name is Drifter and if the above post offended you in any way, shape or form, please send me a PM and simply request a post removal and I'll be more than happy to oblige, you tight little vagina, you. ^_~
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10-16-2011, 09:18 PM Post: #35
Dean
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-16-2011 08:40 PM)Seven Wrote:
The point here is you cant do that effectively if your overly sensitive to peoples reactions. nobody is gonna constantly suck your dick just for sharing, the growth comes from hearing people talk straight, without holding back. You gotta learn to take criticism for what it is.
In my short time ( and i dont even claim to be a senior guy really, barely intermediate at best) i have noticed that perhaps one of the biggest epiphanies any guy can have is that moment when they realize they don't have to be defensive about shit. Go with the flow. take perceived negatives and turn them in your favor. Be like water.
I think this is the most valuable thing that's been said in this whole thread. Having the right mindset is far more useful, in pickup and life, than having the best model. For example, Amerok mentioned the post he was being "trashed" in, referring I assume to Drifter Mile's post. When I saw that post I thought it was a hilarious a good natured teasing.
I've been on the boards for a bit and I really enjoy how we rip on each other. If it's taken as a personal attack, that's more of a reflection on you than anyone else here, assuming you're not posting a 5-some story. Being defensive means you give a shit about others opinions of you and are taking disagreement as a personal attack. Girls don't find that attractive and it's a very reactive way to be.
I would have much rather seen the thread go like this:
Amerok: I has a model
Other guys: cool, but I has better way
Amerok: that's cool too
End of thread
When how it played out was more like:
Amerok: I has awesome model, mwahaha!
Other guys: your model cannot beat my tiger style!
Amerok: my model is awesome, how dare you not acknowledge?
Other guys: Amerok, you act butthurt
Amerok: Am not
Other guys: Are too!
Amerok: Am not and fuck y'all for dissing my contribution
And so on...
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10-16-2011, 09:30 PM Post: #36
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
lol, I'm still wondering how he knew if it was trash talk if he didn't even read it.
BUSTED~
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10-16-2011, 09:32 PM (This post was last modified: 10-16-2011 09:39 PM by Seven.) Post: #37
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I would have much rather seen the thread go like this:
Amerok: I has a model
Other guys: cool, but I has better way
Amerok: that's cool too
End of thread
When how it played out was more like:
Amerok: I has awesome model, mwahaha!
Other guys: your model cannot beat my tiger style!
Amerok: my model is awesome, how dare you not acknowledge?
Other guys: Amerok, you act butthurt
Amerok: Am not
Other guys: Are too!
Amerok: Am not and fuck y'all for dissing my contribution
And so on...
Dean
this is fucking hilarious. well done sir.
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. - Bruce Lee
10-17-2011, 12:30 AM Post: #38
Siege
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I wrote an extensive post to this, but the draft didn't save for me to come back to finish it. Wierd new web odule or something.
Anyways, wht aI had mentioned most & I will post now until I retype the other is
Drifter Miles Wrote:
"Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own." - Bruce Lee
HALLOWEEN/VEGAS Coach/Wing Wknd BONANZA!!!
You too, stay at Project Vegas Mansion w/ 4 coaches incl. PM/Txt 4 info. 3 left
[txt: C.J. "The Siege" @ 857-544-1943]
LINKS:
VEGAS HALLOWEEN Wing/Coach WKND
And
FREE Dating/PUA Instruction
Facebook d'Adventures HERE
Quick EditFull Edit
10-17-2011, 12:33 AM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 01:16 AM by Seven.) Post: #39
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
if anybody is interested this is my favorite "method of seduction"
this works every time. then i make my exit like this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i run this every saturday night.
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. - Bruce Lee
The following 1 user Likes Seven's post:1 user Likes Seven's post
Dangles (10-21-2011)
10-17-2011, 10:42 AM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2011 10:51 AM by Seven.) Post: #40
Seven
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
I looked back and realized this whole thing might have more to do with being "lost in translation" than i thought. I underrated the fact that Amerok is new in this country. That part is a much easier fix than learning to be less reactive, which is also an issue. Lets chalk this up to experience and move on. you cool amerok?
Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. - Bruce Lee
10-21-2011, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 10-21-2011 01:13 PM by Amerok.) Post: #41
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Hello,
I took some time to read again what all you guys wrote, but I was needing some time to take perspective, at the time I really felt this like a personal attack which made me very uncomfortable as I expressed it above. So I needed some time to recover emotionally from this event since I really felt bullied on this forum for not thinking like everyone else. I am not trying to victimize myself in anyway, just explaining my feelings at the time. I wanted to be accepted and did not feel like it, I had some need of approval deep inside me which I don't have any more, thanks to you fuckers ! (joke inside)
In the first place, I wanted to share something with you which helped me a lot for my social reading skills. It was not well welcomed and I accept it. I understand as well that there is a norm here that people new people don’t know nothing (I live it in my lab), I don’t agree and this is largely based on the association principle again. Everybody has something to bring to the table. If this is not the thing I can bring on the forum, I’ll try something else. In the meanwhile, people interested to talk about this model in real life will see me at GSFs and lair meetings.
I'm going to answer everybody :
Serendipitous
I said that everybody has these three aspects in him, read again. I never said it was simple, I just said it is a key that I use to read the emotions people are MOSTLY looking for at the moment I meet them. There are 3 aspects to that : what they show, what they are deeply and what they hide. Some can align, some won't, this is where it becomes an art to guess what they're craving for mostly as an emotional vibe.
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I wonder which of those categories Adams wife falls in..
You seem very concerned with Adam Lyons and his wife. Too bad she's taken, man !
Entropy4
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this kind of stuff is not very applicable in field at all.
I understand it's not for you, it's fine !
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I see a model like this very much the same way as I see routines. If they help you, that's great, use them. But the idea is to get to the point where you don't need it anymore. Because many of these tools that help you early on, are the same tools that hold you back later.
But you are right, we should thank you for sharing something that's been helping you. Although next time I'd be a little more careful about plastering words like "powerful" all over it. I think that's probably what elicited such negative responses from the senior guys. Because in the end, Grim is right, it's a placebo. And right now it's working for you. Learn what you can from the experiences and then move on without it. Every interaction is unique. Every woman has an endless spectrum of emotional needs and desires, and the only way you can begin to react to them appropriately is by observing and feeling them yourself. Not by reading about them.
I am just reading this part now, so you might be right that's it's working against me in some cases but it helped me understand why I could never attract some types of girls. We should talk about it live, it's getting too complicated. If you think I'm making three categories and putting every people in it, that's just not the way I'm doing it and interacting with people, not at all. I am very curious about the complexity in every person I meet, man or woman. BTW : I did not read about it, it was just a video which I posted (that nobody watched apparently). I am at where I am right now, and it helped me to better understand (I'll say it once again) the EMOTIONS some people are MOSTLY looking for. That's all this model is all about.
Grim :
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It's more useful to try and determine what type of girl turns you on and what type of girl you are compatible with.
This is exactly what it is all about. And being compatible with a girl is a choice based on life choices not a finite state.
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Approaching should be an exercise in determining if you and the girl you are talking with would make a good match.
I never said the opposite.
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good calibration they aren't needed at all.
This is what it's all about calibration, view it as a compass showing only 3 directions if you want, not as a 40'0000:1 map.
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BTW - I am both very nerdy and very grumpy. Nerds and geeks tend to hang out and meet each other. I love nerdy girls!
This is exactly what states this model, what you call a "nerd" I call it a "nice guy" or a "romantic", that's all.
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Three of the most experienced guys on this Lair don't see this system as holding much merit.
This is called Authority principle of influence, man ! Don't fall into this trap ! If you want to know more about it, read "Obedience to Authority" by Stanley Milgram : eye-opening.
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You presented this information and I believe you expected us to all agree that it is as powerful as you think it is. Well we all have different opinions. Many of the experienced guys, myself included, tried models like this and it may have helped, it may not have. But when we disagree, please separate our opinions from who we are. My guess us you are disappointed we don't share your enthusiasm for it. No reason to hate us.
I do not hate anybody, but you're right I was very enthusiastic and got very disppointed when no positive reactions went back to me (apart from Seeker).
Seven : since we'll meet in-field I'll make you a demo (for free ) and explain it better. I'm respecting every women as individual, if I would do or think something degrading I would feel bad and I would be off-track, which I'm not.
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don't get defensive because something you say is criticized here. do you react the same way when a girl criticizes you? You just end up looking like a douche. I sincerely hope you take this as a learning experience and like i said MOVE ON.
If you wanna talk more PM me.
I'm just reading this right now. No I don't react like this when I'm not tired, out-phased or drunk.
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In my short time ( and i dont even claim to be a senior guy really, barely intermediate at best) i have noticed that perhaps one of the biggest epiphanies any guy can have is that moment when they realize they don't have to be defensive about shit. Go with the flow. take perceived negatives and turn them in your favor. Be like water.
Yes, man ! I agree, I like this "Be like water" thing, I have some work to learn to be less reactive and less needy of approval (whether girls or guys).
Drifter Miles :
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This shit is only powerful stuff for you because of your nearly illogical belief in it.
It's not a bad thing if you're just looking to get laid.
It is a bad thing if you're planning on having any sort of real relationship with a woman in the future.
Not at all, it's powerful for me because I'm challenging this model, thinking about it, making links between concepts in psychology and my life, past and present. I already had quite a few relationships with women (some might say I'm in one right now), so do not worry too much for me, it has nothing to do with over-simplifying peopled
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Your clitoris.
Seriously, dude. You need to make up your mind. Are you a resolute man who sticks to his beliefs like you try to present yourself to be? Or are you someone who needs everyone's support in order to feel fulfilled?
Stop fantasizing about me, man ! I know you like it but I'm not into this shit. On a more serious note, you are right I still need too much other people's approval.
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Is it because you'd quite obviously lose, just like you've been doing throughout this thread? lol, j/k obviously, but on a serious note, anyone who just blindly follows another person's method or tactic just because they're experienced or even famous like Adam Lyons (oh man, my throat is itchy, lemme clear this shit up real quick.. ahem.. AHEMEROK! okay, all better.) is just a lemming.
Now You're projecting (I agree I did it before I was blinded by emotions). I don't follow blindly someone because he's an authority (like on this forum) I just found something that explained to me lots of things about humans and the kind of EMOTIONS they're MAINLY looking for.
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Also, just because this is a self improvement forum, it doesn't mean we all have to constantly suck each other's dicks. People need their beliefs challenged in order to change it or solidify it.
I agree ! (I thought I had a clitoris, I'm confused ? )
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Oh, Amerok, you clusterfuck of conundrums, you. <3
I don't understand this slang ? Anyway, like I said looking back I went head over heels.
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
lol, I'm still wondering how he knew if it was trash talk if he didn't even read it.
I really WAS lost in translation, It's like I was drunk or something, perceiving a distorted reality, looking back to it, it feels strange to me. Dean was right, I was being very defensive and reactive to my new environment, like when you change an animal (a cat for instance) from one apartment to another. It's over now.
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I looked back and realized this whole thing might have more to do with being "lost in translation" than i thought. I underrated the fact that Amerok is new in this country. That part is a much easier fix than learning to be less reactive, which is also an issue. Lets chalk this up to experience and move on. you cool amerok?
Yeah, I'm cool now. Thanks for caring ! You were the one that understood the best the state I was in. I was quite confused and defensive, as I said earlier it's over, it was pain period for sure.
Seeker and Siege
Thanks for your honest support, I can see you understand the thing better since I could explain it to you in real life and you got to know me. I'm also trying to EXPRESS more the bad boy in me. Like Boom !
To everybody :
At the moment I wrote this post, I was lost in translation experimenting cultural shock. I was also working too much and lacking sleep. So I was reactive, looking back and reading at your posts I don't see at all the aggression I saw these past days. This is why I stopped to write : I knew that I was needing some perspective on this. So just know that I read most of your comments only today (10/21/11).
Knowing better the social and cultural context, I should have taken into account two things using social intelligence :
- I should not have used the word "powerful" in your culture it has connotations such I'm trying to sell you something (for my own interest) or know better than you => immediate reaction.
- I should not have quoted Adam Lyons, for several reasons I won’t expose here.
I prefer to meet people in real life so I hope we get to meet each other at a GSF or a lair meeting. I want to say thanks to all of you for participating in this post and pointing to me that I have to work more on the emotional management, non-reactivess, less needing approval and acceptance (as well as alcohol and sleep management ). I’m waiting on this “emotional intelligence” book to arrive, looking forward to it. Thanks also to for noticing that I was genuinely trying to bring value to the group.
Peace !
Amerok
PS : Let me know if something is not clear yet !
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
10-21-2011, 01:20 PM Post: #42
Grim
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-21-2011 12:58 PM)Amerok Wrote:
Quote:
Three of the most experienced guys on this Lair don’t see this system as holding much merit.
This is called Authority principle of influence, man ! Don’t fall into this trap ! If you want to know more about it, read “Obedience to Authority” by Stanley Milgram : eye-opening.
I wrote and directed a whole movie based on the Milgram Experiment.
It’s online for the month of October if you are at all interested in watching it.
“There is a difference to saying I am an authority so blindly follow me” and I “I have more experience and my experience speaks differently.”
In the first case, the authority has an agenda it wants you to pursue, in the second, we simply want you to avoid the pitfalls we ourselves fell into.
This whole post smacks of mental gymnastics to prove your point. Go out, meet 20 women and tell me how successful this model is. Remember you have to also blame all of your failures on it as well.
10-21-2011, 06:37 PM Post: #43
Serendipitous
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Amerok, you know we’re cool face to face, unlike some of the other guys posting which you have never met, and I’m going to have to say that in your last post, you are still being very reactive.
My comment about Adam Lyons wife was meant to imply that there is a paradox in his model. His model comes off as negative against women, no matter what terms you use to describe women, and I was trying to call attention to the fact that he must not view his wife in the same light as the girls in his own model. Why would he marry a girl with any of those traits? Most logical answer is she doesn’t fall into one of those categories.
When you said you took some time to think, IMHO, you didn’t take enough time and you’re thinking about things in the wrong way. You could have asked yourself “Why would Matt make that comment? What did he mean by it?”. Without thinking about those things, you came up with your own conclusions and you are still dismissing people’s comments.
Don’t try to think of rebuttal’s for people’s comments, because it’s not going to lead towards your growth. Think about what they really mean before posting a reply.
~S
November 20th Symposium – equilibrium – Emotional Dimensions of Dating & Seduction
10-22-2011, 12:09 AM (This post was last modified: 10-22-2011 12:09 AM by Drifter Miles.) Post: #44
Drifter Miles
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
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I don’t follow blindly someone because he’s an authority (like on this forum) I just found something that explained to me lots of things about humans and the kind of EMOTIONS they’re MAINLY looking for.
Really?
I was talking about you blindly following this Adam Lyons guy’s model.
Way to call everyone here a lemming.
If you know so much about interactions and these “yes, but” games, look this one up on the internet.
It’s called “being a passive aggressive bitch”.
Hi, my name is Drifter and if the above post offended you in any way, shape or form, please send me a PM and simply request a post removal and I’ll be more than happy to oblige, you tight little vagina, you. ^_~
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Yesterday, 09:49 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 11:01 PM by Amerok.) Post: #45
Amerok
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
Thank you Serendipitous ! And I understand that you mean well for me, man ! Even through my stubbornness.
Let’s agree on not agreeing on this model, ok ?
I know you’re intelligent and you know I am, so we don’t have to agree on it to be friends. This thing does not matter to me, it’s ok.
To be honest with you, many times in my life there has been something that brought me good things and I wantd to share it with people. So I try and sometimes succeed to convince them that it is good (hence the feeling you got of me trying to sell you something), so it’s not the first time that I upset people by being stubborn about sharing something they’re not interested in. I know it works for me, that’s all I need to know : I won’t back off just to please someone, even more a friend, it would be a lie.
It’s recent that I learned that you share by doing and showing, not by saying or argue.
May the Peace be with all of you !
Copying Edison : “It’s not that I found no way to communicate with people, I just found a hundred ways not to communicate with them !”
Soldier of Love.
We bring Love.
Only Love.
What is this thing about, again ?
Today, 11:26 AM (This post was last modified: Today 11:33 AM by Siege.) Post: #46
Siege
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RE: PEN Attraction Model : Powerful Stuff !
(10-15-2011 04:50 PM)Grim Wrote:
Three of the most experienced guys on this Lair don’t see this system as holding much merit.
To which a post from another THREAD comes to mind:
Master Shake Wrote:
Ego is definitely a problem, but just because someone just signed up here doesn’t automatically make them a newbie.
Maybe they were in another lair for a while.
Maybe they have done this on their own and have a lot of experience. Just because your join date is older doesn’t make you better than any one.
Great points Mr Master Shake, along with your other two points, ego’s lesser half can sometimes be seen running rampant in places like this.
It is also something I continously work on to keep in check within myself.
Yes the balance does get easier as time goes on, but it is also responsible for flame that never seems to fully go out.
Thank You
~C.J. “The Siege”
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